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※ 本文為 MindOcean 轉寄自 ptt.cc 更新時間: 2015-11-09 16:42:25
看板 Gossiping
作者 Antler5566 (鹿茸五六)
標題 Re: [新聞] NASA 公布 「EM DRIVE」實驗成功
時間 Mon Nov  9 14:08:36 2015


魯科學家導讀:

※ 引述《okura (大倉)》之銘言:
: 1.媒體來源:
: 英國dailymail
: 2.完整新聞標題:
: Is deep space travel a step closer to reality? Nasa reveals successful test
: of 'impossible' fuel-free engine that breaks the laws of physics
: 3.完整新聞內文:
: 摘要:
: EM Drive Fuel-free engine could take a spacecraft to Mars in 10 weeks.
: Creates thrust by bouncing microwaves in chamber, using solar power.
: Nasa has conducted more tests using an improved experimental process.
: Test designed to remove errors from earlier study but still produced thrust.
: Scientists still aren't sure how this happens as it defies the laws of physics.
: 全文:
: An 'impossible' fuel-free engine, which could take a humans to Mars in just
: 10 weeks, is still defying science after another batch of tests by Nasa
: suggested the thruster does work.
: The so-called EM Drive creates thrust by bouncing microwaves around in an
: enclosed chamber, and uses only solar power.
: When the concept was first proposed, it was considered implausible because it
: went against the laws of physics - and subsequent tests of the engine have
: shown that the idea could revolutionise space travel.
: March posted on the Nasa Spaceflight forum in reply to an unpublished paper
: that claims the unaccounted thrust is generated by something known as the
: Lorentz force.
EM Drive原理宣稱是利用勞倫茲力產生產生衝力
: The Lorentz force is the force that is exerted by a magnetic field on a
: moving electric charge.
勞倫茲力是磁場作用在移動電荷上的磁力
各位修過普通物理, 應該知道移動電荷在磁場受力
_    _   _         _      _
F=q (v x B) = q [(ds/dt) xB ]

但是要讓太空船加速, 此磁力必須作功來產生動能
   _ _      _   _   _        _      _    _
W= F.s = q (v x B). s = q [(ds/dt) xB ]. s = 0

而磁力跟位移的外積, 再跟位移取內積必為零
所以磁力必不做功!!
這則新聞裡提到動力來源是羅倫茲力, 肯定是錯的

看到這邊, 已經可以知道這則新聞必定是唬爛
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

詳細的網頁介紹

NASA 證實"不可能"的太功船嗎? 一句話,
Did NASA Validate an “Impossible” Space Drive? In a Word, No.
http://goo.gl/EW8V2I

壞科學, 壞科學記者: EM Drive
Bad science, bad science journalism: the EmDrive
http://nanoscale.blogspot.com/2015/04/bad-science-bad-science-journalism.html

沒有跳躍引擎: NASA對EM Drive不予重視
No Warp Drive Here: NASA Downplays 'Impossible' EM Drive Space Engine
http://goo.gl/JAu35l
No Warp Drive Here: NASA Downplays 'Impossible' EM Drive Space Engine
[圖]
Despite the fevered reports rocketing around the Internet recently, NASA is not on the verge of developing a faster-than-light propulsion system that doesn't require any propellant, space agency officials stress. ...

 


節錄一段NASA的測試:
It's tens of micronewtons, less than the weight of a snowflake," Siegel told
Space.com. Specifically, Siegel said he is seeing reports of anywhere between
50 and 70 micronewtons. The error bar of measurement, however, is reported as
between 15 and 30 micronewtons.

NASA測試EM drive, 結果得到 數十微牛頓的衝力
大約跟一片雪花的重量差不多
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給end的你,
歹年冬, 猴肖人
EM drive 是糟糕科學家跟不專業的記者一起搞出來的笑話




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※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc), 來自: 50.24.159.201
※ 文章代碼(AID): #1MG3Xhqf (Gossiping)
※ 文章網址: https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/Gossiping/M.1447049323.A.D29.html
StevenAn: 推一個1F 11/09 14:10
limitex: 忘光了啦幹2F 11/09 14:10
yyff: 我承認我有看沒有懂 囧3F 11/09 14:10
iecju520: 我一開始也覺得是假的4F 11/09 14:11
h4k: 快推以免人家說我們看不懂5F 11/09 14:12
tenninetall: 原來如此       師爺你給翻譯翻譯6F 11/09 14:13
douglasjs: 不是有衝力,有就該研究看看7F 11/09 14:13
signm: 可是新聞不是說已經做出來了?8F 11/09 14:14
bernon: 早就說是假的了,原PO英雄所見略同 (喂9F 11/09 14:14
Murasaki0110: 說中文10F 11/09 14:14
tsubasawolfy: 因為可以不用燃料掛個太陽能板就能持續作功吧11F 11/09 14:14
L0v35: DailyMail就是假外媒阿 水準跟台媒差不多12F 11/09 14:15
tsubasawolfy: 比起現在用"漂"的好上一點點13F 11/09 14:15
L0v35: 更別說這新聞講的是半年前的東西14F 11/09 14:16
jackals60: 沒錯,我的paper上也有提到這觀點15F 11/09 14:17
cdcardabc: 簽名檔是沙小XDDD16F 11/09 14:17
lolucky531: 嗯 跟我想的差不多17F 11/09 14:18
DIIIV: 電磁學呀 略懂略懂18F 11/09 14:19
ClubT: 推19F 11/09 14:19
dearjohn:20F 11/09 14:21
allen60157: 我本來不想發 你先發了也好21F 11/09 14:21
xm3u4vmp6: 所以還是有推力? 讓他加速度100年可能會超快><22F 11/09 14:22
h73o1012: 果然是大腸花23F 11/09 14:22
saiulbb: 推推 看得懂~24F 11/09 14:22
ilovemami: 快推 不然人家會以為我們看不懂25F 11/09 14:23
mdkn35: 太功船 第一次看到26F 11/09 14:24
DVW: 呃..這是中文?27F 11/09 14:25
sagarain: 哎 我以為大家都知道就沒說28F 11/09 14:25
photoshark: 不如提高太陽能的利用效率跟超級電容吧29F 11/09 14:27
sygnuser: 原來如此  感謝解惑 @@30F 11/09 14:29
dirubest: 只記得外積後的向量是正交31F 11/09 14:29
rayxg: 嘿,怎麼跟我想的一樣32F 11/09 14:33
face0079: 這篇只用高中的物理來論述 大家是在推啥?33F 11/09 14:33
a3556959: 我也是這麼覺得的34F 11/09 14:34
iceyeman: 所以NASA需要跟元老院刷存在感!35F 11/09 14:35
face0079: em是時變場 憑一個高中公式就能斷然否定?鄉民根本盲目36F 11/09 14:37
p72910: 這篇釣出很多高職生  哈哈哈哈37F 11/09 14:38
dnek: 啊所以人家不是說原理不明嗎?怎麼這麼肯定就說錯?38F 11/09 14:39
godpigchiu: 推簽名檔XDDDDD39F 11/09 14:42
ak5618: 高中物理還會看不懂?40F 11/09 14:43
face0079: 文組鄉民完全不用想一下就猛推?41F 11/09 14:44
nalaculan: 把磐石佔據那麼久的鬼組織~~還不斷的送人去死42F 11/09 14:47
face0079: maxwell's equations 要不要先帶入? 沒代入解啥電磁坡43F 11/09 14:49
yannicklatte: 這是基本常識吧?                    快推不然被笑44F 11/09 14:50
tank44444: 馬克士威就跟你說磁場是無散度場了45F 11/09 14:57
RLH: 看不懂 分組的時候選錯惹46F 11/09 15:17
octopus4406: 所以到底是真的假的= =?47F 11/09 15:20
原理肯定是假的,
實驗上, 量到的推力只比誤差大一倍
而且無法跟隨機誤差區分
所以NASA不打算繼續資助這計畫
※ 編輯: Antler5566 (50.24.159.201), 11/09/2015 15:30:06
eiw123: 那東西都說原理不明了48F 11/09 15:45
SuperUp: 真貼心 有照顧到end的我 推一下49F 11/09 15:46
face0079: F=q(E+u聇) Lorentz's force equation50F 11/09 15:51
saint01: ......51F 11/09 16:02
baseball0203: 嗯嗯 跟我想的一樣52F 11/09 16:26

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